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Post by Sir Metz a.k.a. "Metzy" on Aug 29, 2007 17:46:36 GMT -5
"I agree with the fact that nations need to trade amongst eachother. I also think that any nation should be allowed to 'charge' whatever they feel for their goods, knowing that should it be too high, no one will buy it, and visa versa. I think that the creation of a "board" located anywhere is a good idea as it will allow trade talks to constantly takeplace, something that is essential since trade is ongoing."
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Post by Canton Rouge on Aug 29, 2007 18:29:28 GMT -5
President Matthews got up and said, " We are behind this idea fully, as this would allow nations both large and small to prosper with other nations in Hyrule. One thing bothers us though. Not all nations are represented here, so are we to assume they will be included as well? Otherwise, this will be a good thing for everyone."
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Post by stargatesg1 on Aug 29, 2007 18:33:53 GMT -5
Emperor Tojo stood up to address, President Mathews question, "No, they would not be forced into this system. They would have to be first willing to do this in order for their participation, thus why a treaty would have to be singed by all interested."
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Post by Porcu on Aug 29, 2007 19:30:08 GMT -5
The Roman representatives had sat quietly for some time in their seats and now Tiberius felt it was time to make known the SPQR's position. He allowed Tojo to respond to President Matthew's question before standing up himself.
"I first wish to thank our host, Emperor Tojo, for organizing this most grand event and bringing the most influential men together for some interesting discussions. Now, the Senate and People of Rome are also in favor of this trade organization, along with Spain and Canton Rouge. The Republic has much to offer the rest of the world, but the same is true the other way around. As far as the Senate is concerned there is nothing to be lost by signing on and so you may count on the SPQR to join...."
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Post by Atlantico Norte on Sept 1, 2007 17:38:10 GMT -5
Sir Nicholas stood up and started his speach: "First, I want to thank Emperor Tojo, for having this idea and allowing all the nations to come here and discuss what they want for their future, then I would like to thank all the nations that shower their interest by showing up. As you know, Atlantico Norte is known for it's advanced technology and I guess that there isn't any nation in Hyrule that doesn't use one components built in Atlantico Norte, no matter if it's a copper wire, or a complex chip. As you know too... high import taxes sometimes prevent smaller nations to access to some goods and technology. I know that everyone here has something to offer and needs somethin to the other nations. For instance, Atlantico Norte and Porcu have shared technology and goods in the past and that help both nations to prosper. I also know that some nations don't agree with free trade, and I guess that we can't force them to do that, but I also guess that everyone agree that the nations that are interested in free trade can't be penalized by those who are not. So I suggest that the nations interested on having free trade with the other nations should sign a Hyrule Free Trade Agreement and constitute a free-trade block, controled by a multi-national Hyrule Free Trade Bureau (HFTB) where the nations that are part of it could sell and buy goods and technology without having to worry about taxes or tarrifs and the bureau should be constituted by representatives from evey nation that takes part of it. That would help our economies to flourish and it would stimulate the consumption.
So for the Hyrule Free Trade Agreement I would propose the following:
* trade of goods without taxes (including tariffs) or other trade barriers (e.g., quotas on imports or subsidies for producers) * trade in services without taxes or other trade barriers * The absence of trade-distorting policies (such as taxes, subsidies, regulations or laws) that give some firms, households or factors of production an advantage over others * Free access to markets * Free access to market information * Inability of firms to distort markets through government-imposed monopoly or oligopoly power * The free movement of labor between and within countries * The free movement of capital between and within countries
To the nations that don't agree with free trade, we could find an alternative economic model to free trade, namely a Balanced Trade Bureau, and later they could join the Hyrule Free Trade Bureau if they feel so. Under balanced trade, the nations who join the BTB are required to provide a fairly even reciprocal trade pattern. They cannot run large trade deficits. If deficits appear, the surplus nation must find a way to balance out trade or risk sanctions, fees, or quotas.
We could say that balanced trade could be called a modern day form of mercantilism. Though it is has intuitive appeal, there is absolutely no economic reason why a trade deficit is automatically bad. For example, if a country is running a trade deficit, this automatically implies it is running an investment surplus, as per Balance of payments. If this investment increases the capital stock, sparks new innovation, and increases productivity, there is absolutely no reason why a trade deficit would cause a problem. Empirically this also appears to be true as a number of nations, have run large trade deficits for years with no discernible adverse impact
I would like to hear from you now..."
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Post by stargatesg1 on Sept 2, 2007 16:58:16 GMT -5
Emperor Tojo stood up to the microphone and said, "That is a very good and complete proposal. There is only one problem however, the movement of labor can present a huge problem, for there would be no legal barriers cultural barriers are present. For example I will use my nation and the nation of Porcu. One key thing is that of the language differences are great. Porcu's official language is Latin, and at least in Stargate around 1% of the population can speak it. As well as the traditional architecture, and cultural taboo's may differ. It is a good idea, but could be difficult to actually achieve, culturally. Other than that I am in full acceptance of the proposal."
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Post by Atlantico Norte on Sept 2, 2007 18:36:08 GMT -5
Sir Nicholas stood up and said: "Dear Emperor Tojo, with all respect I shall say the following. Everybody knows that during the recent expansion campaigns, Atlantico Norte got some new territories either by conquering them or by finding them, and to the people from those lands didn't know how to speak Portuguese and learned it. And we have special classes here in Atlantico Norte for those who arrive to our nation to find work and want to live here and don't know how to speak Portuguese. Maybe if everybody do the same it would not be so difficult. And beside that all those classes are sponsored by private entities that have the chance to select the best ones to be their employees. As you know "where there is a will... there is a way".
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Post by Porcu on Sept 2, 2007 22:52:31 GMT -5
"There may just be one problem to this...", Tiberius Maxentius said as he stood up from his chair next to Cornelius Scipio.
"I am not sure if you gentlemen are entirely aware of the recent wave of reforms that the Senate has passed for Porcu. Not only is the face of Rome and the the entire Republic changing, but the people living within its boarders are as well. For example, recently the SPQR passed a bill stating that most of Rome will be restructured and rebuilt to give it more of a traditional and ancient look, with few exceptions. More importantly, however, is a bill being discussed in the Senate at this very moment. I have no doubt that it will pass, but essentially this new piece of legislation would create a new citizenship class."
"This law would give those with ties to citizens of the Republic before Mussolini's takeover full "Roman Citizenship." These people would either have to be former citizenship holders or related by blood to those that did have it. A second class of citizenship would be created and given at the Senate's discretion. This second class citizenship would be termed "Latin Citizenship" and like Romans they would be able to own land, start businesses, etc. however they cannot vote. The rest of the people living in Porcu would have no citizenship to speak of and so would be more like indentured servants rather than citizens."
"Point being, if any new workers were to enter the Republic they would not be citizens and so firms would not be required to follow the Senate's laws on minimum wage, work hours, work conditions, etc. which only apply to Roman and Latin citizens. Like Emperor Tojo, however, the Senate and People of Rome completely accept this proposal, but we just wished to make it clear what our internal policies will be. Please excuse my long explanation..."
Tiberius finished and sat back down, eager to wrap this conference up and return to the familiar landscape of Rome, which was already beginning to look more and more like the ancient city...
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Post by Atlantico Norte on Sept 3, 2007 18:03:52 GMT -5
Sir Nicholas stood up again thinking "Well... this seems like a tri-lateral conference... only me, Tiberius and Tojo are talking about such important matter... " and said "Dear friend, I don't agree on what you say about not giving the same rights to the workers that go to your nation as your citizens, that reminds me of slavery. And I really prefer to don't add the free movement of labor between and within countries rule, to force them to be slaves on any nation. I hope that both you and Emperor Tojo will agree with me with this proposal."
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Post by Porcu on Sept 3, 2007 19:27:30 GMT -5
"I do not wish to be blunt, Sir Nicholas, however I believe that you have overstepped your boundaries...", Cornelius Scipio said standing up before Tiberius could respond himself. "The internal affairs of the Republic are no concern of yours! The Senate, as of now, is still heavily in favor of this proposal for free trade, exchange of economic information, and labor. I fail to see, and you have failed to point out, how our internal policies, specifically those concerned with citizenship, can negatively effect economic growth."
"Also", Tiberius began standing up beside his fellow Senator. "The Republic functioned this way for hundreds upon hundreds of years and the SPQR only grew in size and strength during that time. Workers have the free will to decide where they wish to work and I can certainly tell you that while they may not hold the same privileges as true Romans they will be living in one of Hyrule's most powerful nations..."
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Post by Canton Rouge on Sept 3, 2007 19:32:22 GMT -5
After hearing the other leaders bash heads for awhile, President Matthews decided to voice his opinion on Sir Nicholas's idea.
"I see a potential problem with your idea. One, with your free movement of laborers, this may convince citizens of other nations whose standard of living is poor to emigrate to other nations and cause what we call 'brain drain' in their home country. Therefore, I suggest a quota system of limiting the movement of laborers and also have them as temporary laborers to their assigned nation in the sense that they would have to return home." President Matthews awaited the other leader's opinions on this.
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Post by Porcu on Sept 3, 2007 20:12:52 GMT -5
"I can agree with this...", Cornelius Scipio said gazing over at Tiberius and noticing that he too was nodding his head in approval. "It would solve Sir Nicholas's little moral dilemma about the workers and there is no doubt that any worker, from any nation, has something to learn in another nation. As Tiberius mentioned before, each nation has something to offer and the same is true for human capital as well. I thank President Matthews for bringing up this most interesting and important point..."
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Post by Robengrad on Sept 4, 2007 4:51:54 GMT -5
"I have sat here and listened to everything that has been said, and I am still unsure as to how, should this system be set-up, any nation outside of the HFTB could possibly hope to continue trading with those inside." began Colin Powell.
"The 'Free Trade Beurau' will, as far as I can see, set up a group of nations with whom it will be impossible to trade with from outside the agreement. Effectivley this treaty forces countries to join and follow your rules in order to survive. By your own admission a different watered down treaty of similar vein will need to be created for those outside the HFTB to continue to exist.
"I fail to see how this will become anything other than a Hyrule Union down the line as countries continue to be drawn in as they cannot compete outside of it. I see that this will be a treaty that will be able to prey on the newer weaker countries and force them to join. While some points carry merit, I do not see the need to create such a treaty when such things can be negotiated between countries. Was that not the reason the Presidents idea of the HTO was shot down? For taking too many decisions away from the sovereign governments?
"I think I can say now with absolute clarity, the United States will not join such a treaty."
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Post by stargatesg1 on Sept 4, 2007 8:19:17 GMT -5
Emperor Tojo stood up and said, "I could a agree with a temporary worker program. As to Secretary Powell's concerns I disagree with your assessment. I for one will still continue to trade with any nation inside or out of this system. This is just meant for willing nations to have an open forum to discuss trade, and have some guidelines to follow for free trade. May I ask you to point out the areas where it would limit outside trade."
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Post by Atlantico Norte on Sept 4, 2007 14:45:51 GMT -5
Sir Nicholas stood up after Emperor Tojo and said: "Thank you Emperor Tojo, I would like to say that Atlantico Norte is very interested on trading with your nation. When I left Atlantico Norte, I had a mission, and that mission was to promote free trade in Hyrule, but I feel that this idea is not a consensual idea, so, I would like to announce that with or without bureau, with or without agreement, with or without support from all the nations, that Atlantico Norte will abolish all the import/export taxes including the tariffs, we will also abolish all the trade barriers that we had until now, and this will be done either for goods or services. If any nation shows interest on the Atlantico Norte market that nation will have free access to it as well access to any information that it needs to be competitive, and beside that right now in Atlantico Norte all the businesses are regulated to prevent monopolies and to promote competitiveness. Also if anyone want to work in Atlantico Norte, that one will have the same rights as any of the Atlantico Norte citizens, and may acquire AN Citizenship after 5 years working and living in our nation. And even having an unemployment rate of 4.08%, which I could say that maybe it's the lowest in our region, we're not affraid of having people from other nations to come and work because there's enough room, work and for everyone, and if they need to learn Portuguese or one of the four regional languages, there will be schools waiting for them so they can work and learn our language on a post-labour timetable. Finally let me say thet our banks will abolish all the taxes regarding money transferences from and to other nations."
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